Potok on MSNBC: 'Patriots' at Bundy Standoff Not Quite 'Domestic Terrorists'
Last week, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada who rushed to southeastern Nevada to mount an armed defense of Cliven Bundy鈥檚 illegally grazing cattle as 鈥渘othing more than domestic terrorists.鈥
On the Friday edition of , host Chris Hayes asked the Southern Poverty Law Center鈥檚 Mark Potok if that was the right term to use. He explained that Reid was not far off:
POTOK: Well, they鈥檙e not quite domestic terrorists, not yet. But you know, I鈥檝e seen the pictures, they weren鈥檛 merely sitting up overlooking law enforcement officers with their sniper rifles, they had them trained 鈥 scoped rifles trained on the heads of law enforcement officials. I mean, you know, they were a split second away from real bloodshed, and bloodshed that was entirely provoked by the Bundys and the Bundys鈥 supporters.
Earlier in the segment, Hayes hosted Nevada Republican Assemblywoman Michelle Fiore, a Bundy ally and one of the mainstream political figures who has been on the scene in Nevada, supporting the 鈥淧atriots鈥 in defiance of federal authorities. Hayes tried to pin Fiore down on whether she believed federal authorities had the right to confiscate Bundy鈥檚 cattle, considering they had a court order in hand 鈥 Bundy has been adamant that he does not recognize the federal government as a legitimate entity 鈥 but Fiore was evasive on the point, claiming instead that the feds had mishandled the situation by coming in with guns after Bundy threatened a 鈥渞ange war.鈥
HAYES: Do you agree with that stance? Do you recognize the authority of the federal government?
FIORE: I recognize our federal government overstepped and overreached in our state of Nevada. That鈥檚 what I recognize. I recognize we have a lot of issues to conclude. We also have the spotlight on Nevada right now, looking at the way BLM had zero stewardship in herding cattle, slaughtering cattle. That鈥檚 what I鈥檓 recognizing.
I鈥檓 recognizing what I鈥檝e seen. This is my sixth day on the ground here in Bunkerville, and I鈥檓 recognizing that this was handled totally incompetent, I鈥檓 questioning the BLM and I鈥檓 also going to request either a resignation or termination of the person that had ordered this to be done.
HAYES: But that鈥檚 a distinct question. I mean, I understand your point. You think that the way that the law has been enforced the BLM has been heavy handed. That`s a distinct question from lines of legal authority. I鈥檓 just asking you a simple yes or no question -- do you recognize the authority of the federal government?
FIORE: Oh, I recognize the authority that they鈥檝e -- they believe that they have. I just question it.
HAYES: So you do not -- you agree with Cliven Bundy the federal government does not have authority over the land and over the taxpayers of Nevada.
FIORE: No. Chris, don`t put words in my mouth. I鈥檓 not saying I agree with Cliven Bundy. What I鈥檓 saying is the way this was handled is really suspicious. When in the heck do we send our federal government with arms to collect a bill? When do we do that?
Fiore told Hayes that the message Bundy鈥檚 supporters sent to the government was: 鈥淒on鈥檛 come here with guns and expect the American people not to fire back.鈥
Hayes asked Potok about Fiore鈥檚 perspective.
HAYES: What do you say to the argument that the BLM basically provoked this entire thing?
POTOK: Well, I don`t think it鈥檚 true. I think we`re talking about a man who is a thief, a man who has stolen a million dollars or whatever the precise amount might be from the American people, from his fellow ranchers, all the ranchers all over this country who actually do pay their fees.
You know, something else to respond to something the assemblywoman said, you know, in fact the jails, the prisons are full of people who have refused to pay their taxes for one reason or another.
So, you know, yes, I think the optics were bad. I think coming in there with helicopters and police dogs was almost guaranteed to provoke this kind of reaction, especially because the whole operation was dragging on day after day after day.
But, you know, at the end of the day, what these people are proposing is that we are not a nation of laws, that stealing money from other Americans is somehow a defense of the Constitution and liberty. You know, this whole idea of county supremacy truth be told is directly descended from groups like Posse Comitatus, you know, racist, anti-Semitic violent groups. That's where this whole ideology is coming from.
In the meantime, Sen. Reid continues : 鈥淭hese people think they鈥檙e patriots, they鈥檙e not,鈥 he said on CNN. 鈥淚f they鈥檙e patriots, we鈥檙e in very big trouble.鈥