Inside the Far-right Podcast Ecosystem, Part 2: Richard Spencer's Origins in the Podcast Network
A network of podcasts, including one which featured former President Donald Trump鈥檚 eldest son as a guest in 2016, fueled the rise of one of the core leaders of the modern white nationalist movement.
Richard Spencer, a prominent white nationalist figurehead during the Trump era, was one of dozens of up-and-coming extremists who leveraged a network of far-right podcasts to mobilize followers and turn his movement into a household name. This movement, known as the so-called 鈥渁lternative right鈥 or 鈥渁lt-right鈥 for short, encompassed a loose set of far-right ideologies, groups and individuals under the mantle of white supremacy. While early coverage of the alt-right emphasized its members鈥 and leaders鈥 fluency with internet culture 鈥 specifically forums and social media 鈥 the role of podcasts as a vehicle for propaganda and leadership development has not yet been examined.
The Southern Poverty Law Center analyzed Spencer鈥檚 breakthrough into the upper echelons of听the white power movement through the lens of a web of 18 different podcasts popular with the extreme right between 2005 and 2020. The 人兽性交 found that Spencer鈥檚 earliest efforts to market his movement to the broader extreme right were facilitated in large part by 鈥淭he Political Cesspool鈥 (TPC), a podcast and radio show hosted by longtime white nationalist propagandist James Edwards. Though the show has featured a variety of far-right extremists from the United States and abroad, Edwards has brushed shoulders with members of the more mainstream right, including Donald Trump Jr.
This is part two of the 人兽性交鈥檚 four-part report examining 15 years of podcasting data across 18 different shows produced by far-right extremists. While Spencer is but one of the 882 cast members who appeared on 4,046 different episodes of these shows, he figures prominently in the web of far-right extremist content makers.
Spencer鈥檚 role in the white power movement
Spencer emerged as one of the most prominent white nationalist figureheads during the flurry of extremist activity around the 2016 election, although his involvement in the white power movement extends well beyond the Trump era.
In 2008, Spencer began promoting the term 鈥渁lternative right鈥 while an editor at the paleoconservative online publication Taki鈥檚 Magazine. In December of that year, Taki鈥檚 published a speech from far-right political theorist Paul Gottfried outlining his vision for a new 鈥渋ndependent intellectual Right.鈥 Though the speech itself , it was key to Spencer's nascent movement.
In 2011, Spencer became president of the National Policy Institute, a think tank founded by William H. Regnery II, a mega-donor to various white nationalist outlets. Under Spencer鈥檚 tutelage, the National Policy Institute, dedicated to ensuring the 鈥渂iological and cultural continuity鈥 of white Americans, rebranded age-old racial bigotries for a younger generation of extremists. It did so through a variety of media, including blogs, journal articles and podcasts. NPI also held dozens of conferences with other white nationalist figureheads. In the run-up to and aftermath of the 2016 election, these gatherings drew scores of younger attendees, in part because the institute offered discounted admission for those under 30.
Likewise, Spencer was one of a core cadre of white nationalist organizers behind the flurry of far-right rallies in the first half of the Trump era. This included the August 2017 鈥淯nite the Right鈥 rally, which brought hundreds of white supremacists and other far-right extremists to Charlottesville, Virginia. The event devolved into violent skirmishes, culminating in the murder of antiracist activist Heather Heyer by James Alex Fields Jr. A few months later, at Spencer鈥檚 Oct. 19 appearance at the University of Florida as part of his brief college tour, on charges of attempted homicide for allegedly firing at protesters.
Today, he is one of over a dozen defendants named as organizers of 鈥淯nite the Right鈥 in the Sines v. Kessler civil lawsuit. NPI has remained largely dormant in the years following the fracturing of the alt-right in 2018. Spencer made at least two attempts to launch new podcasts, including 鈥淭he McSpencer Group鈥 and 鈥淩adix Live,鈥 named after one of NPI鈥檚 publications, Radix Journal.
Spencer鈥檚 breakthrough on 鈥楾he Political Cesspool鈥
On Oct. 24, 2009, less than a year after beginning to promote the term 鈥渁lternative right,鈥 Spencer made his first appearance on 鈥淭he Political Cesspool鈥 (TPC), a podcast and radio show hosted by James Edwards. Over the course of Spencer鈥檚 next two dozen or so appearances on TPC, Edwards used his prominent platform within the broader far-right movement to promote Spencer as a core member of the white nationalist intelligentsia.
Edwards, a board member of the Council of Conservative Citizens and a principal member of the white nationalist American Freedom Party, started TPC in 2004 as a terrestrial radio show, though it has since branched out to internet broadcasting. TPC鈥檚 mission statement includes white nationalist rhetoric, claiming that it 鈥渟tands for the Dispossessed Majority鈥 and is 鈥減ro-White.鈥
As part of TPC鈥檚 five-year anniversary special, Spencer appeared alongside Paul Gottfried to discuss 鈥渢he failure of the conservative movement.鈥 Edwards introduced Spencer as the 鈥淢anaging Editor of TakiMag.com鈥 and an 鈥渋ntellectual heavyweight.鈥 Within the first ten minutes of the interview, Spencer began promoting his vision for a new far-right movement.
鈥淲e鈥檝e got to find a new tactic that isn鈥檛 just about kicking the neoconservatives out of the [conservative] movement. I don鈥檛 think that鈥檚 possible or desirable. We鈥檝e got to find a new right wing,鈥 he said during the interview. Spencer added that he had begun to refer to this movement as the 鈥渁lternative right,鈥 鈥渁 collection of different groups or individuals who are basically not falling into that lesser-of-two-evils logic鈥 that he claimed was used by some far-right extremists to justify voting for Republican candidates such as the late John McCain.
The discussion was notable in two regards. First, Spencer鈥檚 efforts to introduce the 鈥渁lternative right鈥 as a concept to TPC listeners came long before the term had begun to take root among far-right extremists. Spencer鈥檚 TPC appearance came less than a year after Gottfried presented his vision for a nationalist, populist right-wing in a speech at the H.L. Mencken Club. Spencer published Gottfried鈥檚 speech on Taki鈥檚 Magazine鈥檚 website, under the title 鈥,鈥 in December 2009. The term stuck, and over the course of the next year, Taki鈥檚 Magazine, under Spencer鈥檚 editorship, would publish several articles laying the groundwork for this 鈥渁lternative right.鈥
Second, Spencer鈥檚 appearance on TPC allowed him to reach a broader constituency within the far right. Edwards, a Tennessee resident, had long tailored the show for a Southern white nationalist and neo-Confederate audience 鈥 two audiences that would become crucial partners for Spencer and other organizers during the 2017 鈥淯nite the Right鈥 rally. Throughout the episode, both Edwards and Spencer urged far-right activists to come together, with Edwards emphasizing that their 鈥渟urvival depended on it.鈥 Likewise, throughout the segment, Spencer and, later, Gottfried sought to draw listeners to their causes. Spencer, Gottfried and Edwards encouraged listeners to attend the H.L. Mencken Club鈥檚 second annual meetup.
Spencer鈥檚 subsequent appearances on 鈥楾he Political Cesspool鈥
Between 2009 and 2020, Spencer appeared another 29 times on TPC broadcasts. The bibliographical details of each appearance provide a timeline for his development as a white nationalist leader, as well as for the alt-right鈥檚 rise.
- Six months after his appearance in October 2009, he was invited back 鈥 this time hawking his new blog, AlternativeRight.com. Edwards re-introduced him to TPC listeners as the 鈥淓xecutive Editor of Alternative Right, a trendy new paleoconservative website that features a wide variety of intellectual writings from some of the greatest minds you'll find today.鈥
听 - In late 2010, TPC nodded to Spencer鈥檚 past career in more mainstream right-wing media. Spencer, Edwards said, was the 鈥渇ormer editor of the American Conservative magazine and is the founder of AlternativeRight.com.鈥 (Spencer worked at the American Conservative, a paleoconservative magazine, briefly as an assistant editor after dropping out of his doctoral program at Duke University in 2007.) By 2011, TPC described him as the founder and co-editor of Alternative Right and Executive Director of the National Policy Institute.
听 - In 2012 Spencer added 鈥淓xecutive Director of Washington Summit Publishers鈥 to his resume.
听 - By 2014, he became 鈥淧resident of the National Policy Institute鈥 and 鈥渇ounder and editor of Radix Journal.鈥
听 - After Hungarian police detained Spencer in October 2014 during NPI鈥檚 disastrous attempt to hold a conference in Budapest, he was described on TPC as an 鈥渋nternational thought criminal and free speech martyr.鈥
听 - In 2015, TPC highlighted his educational achievement as 鈥渁 doctoral student at Duke University before dropping out to pursue a life of thought-crime.鈥 By 2018, this had softened to 鈥渉e was a doctoral student at Duke University before becoming a journalist.鈥
Most of Spencer鈥檚 30 appearances on 鈥淭he Political Cesspool鈥 pre-date his notoriety in the popular press by several years. Through 鈥淭he Political Cesspool,鈥 he was able to use the airtime to establish himself as an intellectual leader within the broader extreme right, while also drawing listeners deeper into the world of far-right activism through attendance at in-person events. Spencer continued to organize, promote and attend white nationalist meetups and conferences, including infamously in 2016 when he catapulted into the public eye after yelling 鈥淗ail Trump!鈥 and 鈥淗ail victory!鈥 鈥 an English translation of the Nazi chant 鈥淪ieg Heil鈥 鈥 during an event in Washington, D.C.
During this time, too, Spencer鈥檚 appearances on the show coincided with a range of notable guests. Representatives from the Council of Conservative Citizens, a white nationalist group with roots in the efforts to oppose school desegregation in the 1950s, were frequent guests, joining Edwards鈥 show some 58 times between 2005 and 2020. It also featured a variety of racist thinkers who figured into the alt-right鈥檚 growth during the 2016 election. These included Jared Taylor, editor of the white nationalist publication American Renaissance, who appeared on the show 52 times during this period; Sam Dickson, a former lawyer for the Ku Klux Klan who appeared 36 times; and Kevin MacDonald, a retired university professor and author of several antisemitic tomes. MacDonald appeared 35 times. Many of these figures had, like Spencer, nurtured a deliberately more mainstream image to hide their extremist views.
But Edwards also hosted politicians, from the United States and abroad. In 2012, Rep. Walter B. Jones, a Republican from North Carolina, went on the show to discuss troop withdrawal from Afghanistan. (He later claimed he was unaware of the show鈥檚 political leanings.) Rep. Nick Griffin, of the far-right British National Party, made multiple appearances on the show, joining Edwards鈥 program five times. Finally, Edwards interviewed Donald Trump Jr. in March 2016 on a sister program, 鈥淟iberty Roundtable.鈥 There, the two disparaged immigrants, particularly undocumented ones. Trump Jr. Edwards was 鈥渂rought into the interview without my knowledge.鈥
Growing the alt-right
While Spencer continued to appear on 鈥淭he Political Cesspool鈥 throughout the 2010s, an array of newer white nationalist podcasts provided him a variety of different platforms from which to promote and grow the alt-right. These shows, many of which were produced by and for a younger generation of white supremacists, tended to appeal to a younger, more digitally savvy, audience.
Spencer became a regular fixture on The Right Stuff podcasting circuit in fall of 2015. On Oct. 13, 2015, Spencer joined 鈥淭he Daily Shoah鈥 for the first time. The show was recorded in the runup to NPI鈥檚 annual conference, held around Halloween of that year. It included a brief promotional segment, dubbed the 鈥淣PI Conference Haircut Contest,鈥 where Spencer judged TRS listeners鈥 undercuts 鈥 a type of hairstyle where the sides of the head are shaved or buzzed, and the top is left at a longer length. NPI awarded the winner a free ticket to its annual conference, held that year in Philadelphia.
After this initial appearance on 鈥淭he Daily Shoah,鈥 Spencer鈥檚 involvement with other shows in the podcast network grew. While Spencer appeared on 95 episodes of nine different podcasts from 2009鈥20, his appearances on five of these nine shows coincided with an upswing in street mobilization between 2016 and 2018 by far-right extremists throughout the country. Spencer used many of these appearances to either promote future events or shape the narrative after a high-profile event, such as 鈥淯nite the Right鈥 or press conferences.
Some of these discussions brought together other prominent organizers as well. The diagram below shows Spencer's diverse set of co-appearances with dozens of cast members from multiple podcasts over an 11-year period, from 2009 to 2020.听
In 2016, Spencer appeared with Andrew Anglin of The Daily Stormer on an episode of 鈥淏etween Two Lampshades鈥 鈥 a spin-off of 鈥淭he Daily Shoah,鈥 named after the Zach Galifianakis talk show 鈥淏etween Two Ferns鈥 鈥 to promote a speaking engagement at Texas A&M University. Following the deadly 鈥淯nite the Right鈥 rally in 2017, Spencer joined two TRS podcasts to break down what happened in Charlottesville. In an episode posted Aug. 13, 2017, Spencer joined Matthew Gebert, then a State Department official and TRS organizer known in white supremacist circles as 鈥淐oach Finstock鈥; fellow 鈥淯nite the Right鈥 organizer Elliott Kline, who used pseudonym 鈥淓li Mosley鈥; and the rest of usual cast of 鈥淭he Daily Shoah鈥 to unpack what happened at 鈥淯nite the Right.鈥 A few weeks later, on Aug. 21, 2017, Spencer joined the 鈥淔ash the Nation鈥 podcast, along with 鈥淭hird Rail鈥 host Norman Asa Garrison III. In the first 10 minutes of the two-hour episode, Spencer and Garrison sought to shift the blame for the violence at 鈥淯nite the Right鈥 from the far right to antiracist protesters.
Spencer鈥檚 extensive cooperation with other prominent alt-right podcasts declined in the aftermath of 鈥淯nite the Right.鈥 In 2019, he launched 鈥淭he McSpencer Group,鈥 a podcast and talk show. While the show has managed to attract a small number of rotating cast members, Spencer himself has appeared on just two other podcasts in the 人兽性交鈥檚 data set between 2019 and 2020, signifying a retrenchment back into his own work and away from other figures in the movement.
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